Die Bestsellerautorin Ulrike Herrmann trifft den Kabarettisten Jürgen Becker - Das Ende des Kapitalismus - und dann?

Whether economists or politicians like Christian Lindner: almost everyone believes in the blessing of eternal growth. However, unlimited growth is not possible in a finite system like our planet. A system as extremely limited as Christian Lindner's should understand this.

Some climate activists are now so desperate that they are blocking our city highways and completely paralyzing traffic in some places. But it's no use, because nobody knows: what's the difference?

Capitalism is in a dilemma: it needs growth in order to be stable, but unfortunately green energy from the sun and wind will never be enough to fuel global growth. The industrialized countries need to say goodbye to capitalism and strive for a circular economy in which only what can be recycled is consumed.

But how should we imagine this green shrinkage? The best model is, of all things, the British wartime economy from 1939 onwards, says Ulrike Herrmann. Jürgen Becker has a solution in which humor plays a central role. After all, sensible solutions can also be found by persistently researching nonsense.

Ulrike Herrmann is a taz business correspondent. Her latest book is called "The end of capitalism. Why growth and climate protection are not compatible - and how we will live in the future" (KiWi).

Jürgen Becker is a cabaret artist from Cologne. He hosted the WDR "Mitternachtsspitzen" program from 1992 to 2020. His most recent book was "Die Zukunft war auch schon mal besser" (KiWi).